The jump wings are sterling and pin back. The 82nd guarded the western approaches to Saigon and its units were often parceled out other divisions, including the 1st Cav, 1st Infantry and … In either case, Big Army finishes the job. We’re all about the short term. For more information: https://warisboring.com/yes-the-u-s-army-still-needs-paratroopers/ https://warontherocks.com/2016/04/reimagining-and-modernizing-u-s-airborne-forces-for-the-21st-century/. Maj. John Hawley logged 31 jumps in the 82nd, of which 22 were at night with combat equipment. In the words of an airborne battalion commander, “When you are in line at manifest, no one cares what rank you are: You are a paratrooper. Don’t try to change it. The fact that other airbourne forces around the globe don't have this ability has more to do with doctrine and funding (or lack of thereof), not because of technological complexity of mechanising airbourne troops. JUMP WINGS T-shirt / For him / For her / 82nd Airborne / 101st Airborne / Your Unit Patch / Army / Airborne Ranger / U.S. Military / Veteran MejiArtWear. When the Germans invaded Crete in 1941, German paratrooper losses were so heavy that Hitler forbade their use for the remainder of the war except in special operations. “Daytime Hollywood was the least injury prone, so we went for those. Finally something on my area of expertise. I was in the 505th [Parachute Infantry Regiment] for Desert Storm, and our obsession with General Gavin was almost cult-like back then. Do the math on how many rotaries you would need to be able to quickly deploy the same amount of pax you could throw out of e.g. Of course, sending airborne forces against a peer or near-peer adversary like Russia or China would be suicidal (although the same can be said about helicopter-borne units). Hawaii, Italy, Alaska, Korea, and of course, Mother Bragg in Fayetteville, North Carolina, home of the 82nd Airborne Division. Was there any plan to use mass airdrops in the event of world war three? Paratroopers run, run, run with heavy packs, and they land like this: feet, ass, head. The lack of tactical resupply availability was a major factor in the Canadian Forces decision to disband the Airborne Regiment. There are no safe spaces or “stress cards” on Fort Bragg, and the only trigger warnings you’ll ever get come from the tower. (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_attack_on_Karbala. Steven Noonan, “The airborne units have a very short history (World War II to the present), but our obsession with upholding the honor and reputation of the Regiment and always trying to add to its glory is unmatched anywhere else in the army. They can be rapidly deployed. Armor officers who get transferred to the airborne often complain about our lack of long-term planning. The Apache fleet conveniently dodged action against Milosevic in 1999, an enemy which had a air defense network able to down a F-117 stealth fighter. There's a reason that despite the Marine billing themselves as the QRF for the US, the real QRF is made of up Airborne units. Let’s stipulate up front that the Marines have the best dress uniforms, and getting out of a boat on a beach is probably harder than it looks. As a German officer wrote in World War II, regular soldiers conducted more amphibious landings. In 1983, Ranger Batt found the airport at Grenada defended by a few ZSU's and still combat jumped into it successfully. “We used to discuss it at brigade when I was scheduling jumps,” a retired airborne operations NCO recently told me. You can switch to a C-17 and basically double all those numbers (not exaggerating). Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, Artillery, Canadian Military & Modern Warfare. If they wouldn't be all that good in 2017, what about the mid 1980s during the cold war? March 17, 2016, Face it, there’s no way to enter the battlefield with more derring-do than as part of a mass-tactical parachute drop on a moonless night, striking terror in the hearts of the enemy. One is a airborne division and the other primarily goes by helicopter. Added bonus, a US General you might recognize downplaying it to the media soon after: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/25/us/nation-war-helicopters-loss-apache-iraq-evidence-vulnerability-copters-ground.html?mcubz=0 ) In short, a conventional foe, (Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, probably Syria) could shut down the NATO rotary fleet. The 101st switched to Helos, Air Assault, around Vietnam time. 101st Airborne takes over for 82nd Airborne in Afghanistan. The main downside is the lack of an exfiltration capability, but as /u/BLCKFLG_media pointed out, militarized cargo planes can infiltrate battalions of men with artillery and APCs in a way that you can't really scale with rotary craft. Furthermore, new technology like unmanned ground vehicles are now allowing airborne forces to go in with armor of their own, greatly enhancing their fighting power. Heliborne troops seem to provide an advantage in nearly every single metric important in modern conventional warfare except maybe for cost and maintenance. Seventy-four years after the formation of the first American airborne unit, we’re still better than non-airborne personnel, or NAPs, as we call them. The Russian VDV is an interesting case because it appears to me to be FAR larger than is useful. In mid-September 1944, the 82nd AB participated in the airborne assault on Holland (Operation Market-Garden) and November 13 will be raised by the Canadians after 56 days of fighting. Hours are left to vote for Fort Bragg’s 82nd Airborne Division or Fort Campbell, Kentucky’s 101st Airborne Division, which are pitted against each other in an online “battle.” Show me a retired paratrooper with perfectly working ankles, knees, and back, and I’ll show you a case of stolen valor. The ribbon bar is German made and I have seen this exact style of ribbon bar on other Ike jackets from the 508th PIR in the occupation period. View Michael J. MacLeod's articles. See more ideas about Airborne, 101st airborne division, Band of brothers. Against low-end adversaries, armored forces might be overkill and air assault units might not be able to deploy quickly enough. If I made any terminology I would be happily corrected :). We set the standard, even if it’s from 1944. Of course, the old timers go on about all of their jumps with 200-pound rucks in 20-knot winds and dragging wildebeests off the drop zone, but their jump logs give us real numbers. It could take weeks to deploy a brigade of the 101st. Michael J. MacLeod Posted by 2 years ago. VDV currently is something around 50 000 troops. While a 2011 study of 82nd Airborne paratroopers found an injury rate of just over 1%, at that time, the division was conducting fewer of the more dangerous nighttime combat-equipment jumps. The bipartisan pair were the only members of Congress who, this past Sunday, took the same leap that troops from the 82nd and 101st Airborne divisions … Do they have some other needs that justify having more parachute infantry such as the boons of fixed wing speed and range. Push-ups are push-ups, not some resting, leaning, front thing. The 101st and 82nd are both Airborne. History World War II. Mar 22, 2017 - Explore John Wilkins's board "101st Airborne" on Pinterest. Navy SEALs ) and Tier 3 is reserved for large and conventional warfare units. You look to your right and left to see who the junior guy is, and that’s who you are going to take care of. Using them without air superiority is suicidal as they can't avoid detection (low ceiling + no stealth) and then evade (low ceiling + short range) or outrun (abysmally low speed compared to a jet) interception. In fact, transporting an air assault brigade across theaters is about as difficult as transporting an armored brigade, due to the weight of all the helicopters. Paratroopers are built like barnyard chickens. All the meat is in the upper body. /u/kmar81 had once written a nice post on how the VDV is the Russian equivalent of the USMC, and not the 82nd or 101st Airborne. Rotary aircraft, even attack helicopters, are extremely vulnerable to anti-aircraft capabilities due to their low ceiling (under 20k feet), low speed (~150 mph), short range (~1000 miles with drop tanks) and complete lack of stealth. You're equating "modern military doctrine" with asymmetric warfare. As a German officer wrote in World War II, “American parachutists…devils in baggy pants…are less than a hundred meters from my outpost line. But the plane's very vulnerable in that situation, so it's not really appropriate for every situation. Said 82nd 1st Sgt. You're discounting moving the helicopters and troops to the point that they depart. The USMC is the second reaction force, since they actually can pull up an amphib offshore and dump heavier units. One can make a very good argument that dropping unsupported light infantry into combat with limited ability to resupply isn't very realistic in 2017, but that is the theory. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. No snivel gear allowed. 1. If such a war were to break out, current airborne forces could be ballooned up significantly. That’s two out of every three jumps night/combat equipment, whereas in the 2011 study, two daylight Hollywood jumps were reported for each nighttime/combat equipment jump. Face it, there’s no way to enter the battlefield with more derring-do than as part of a mass-tactical parachute drop... By Michael J. MacLeod Not only this, but the VDV has great value not because of its airborne nature, but more simply because they are a well organized force than can be quickly readied for warfare if need be, as was seen during the 2008 war with Georgia. Favorite Add to More colors Airborne It's Raining Freedom T-Shirt- Gift For US Airborne … If you don’t have wings, you’re a leg. Our job is to be in the enemy’s backyard within 18 hours of notification, and all we need to bring is our weapons, ammunition, and lunch. This is something I've studied a bit as well. 12. While a 2011 study of 82nd Airborne paratroopers found an injury rate of just over 1%, at that time, the division was conducting fewer of the more dangerous nighttime combat-equipment jumps. But on the other hand, a single always-ready company to battalion sized QRF parked next to few planes can literally be anywhere in the world and shooting in hours, not days. Tanks, Bradleys, Strykers, oh why? With air superiority, a SEAD package, and a modern ECM/EW suite, a single C-130 can drop 64 paratroops (~6xBlackhawk) 2000 miles away (~2xBlackhawk) at ~450 mph (~3xBlackhawk) at above 20k altitude for a HALO jump. Thousands parachuted blindly out of low-flying planes into unknown territory alongside the 101st Airborne Division. 10. They're still a risky operations, (even in training, injuries are relatively common,) but it bypasses rudimentary air defenses that rotary craft are vulnerable to. Though, I'm having trouble imagining a realistic scenario for this. Miale, Frank M. B Company, 307th Airborne Engineer Battalion, 82nd Airborne Division 482 Michaelis, John 502nd Parachute Infantry Regiment, 101st Airborne Division 255; 383 In 2011, my new NCOIC was welcomed to the 82nd Airborne Division along with other division newcomers thusly: “There’s a lot of things you’re going to see here that are a little messed up or a little different. All rights reserved. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, Press J to jump to the feed. Unfortunately that kind of operation has a marginal use against an asymmetric threat, which is why no one's done anything close since 2003. On the left sleeve is an 82nd Airborne Division patch and on the right sleeve is a 101st Airborne Division patch and the Belgian Fourragere. As veterans, anytime we scroll through Facebook, play around on Twitter, or even change the channel on the TV, we're... Evening colors is a timeless military tradition, and... Did you ever find yourself sitting on duty... Get the latest in military news, entertainment and gear in your inbox daily. Apart from recon companies and 45th regiment, VDV has very token parachute training with less than 10 jumps for an average paratrooper a year - not because of lack of funds (at least not completely), but because the main focus now is on actual combat training as a somewhat regular mechanised force, albeit a little bit elitish and with a better individual training than average Russian rifle brigade. There's something in between, assault landings. To me, that’s beautiful.” It is. Didn't want to lose guys before deployments.”. Check out this video to see how All Americans train to deploy, fight and win! The 82nd Airborne Division is considered as Tier 3 military unit (Photo: Reuters) Tier 1 is reserved for the best of the best, while Tier 2 is the pot for regular SOF units (etc. He’s a jumpmaster and that’s who you are listening to. When the 101st Airborne Division was activated Aug. 16, 1942, the first commander of the unit wrote that the unit might lack a history, but Share on Twitter; Share on Facebook; Share on Reddit; Share on LinkedIn This renowned aviation unit is home to the Army’s most elite helicopter pilots. The US Army literally lost half their Huey's in Vietnam, and mostly to ground fire. It is (was?) We have the most exotic duty stations. © 2021 Brookline Media. Truth is, every soldier in the Army knows how to wait for long periods, catnap at a moment’s notice, and endure long periods in awkward equipment. This is what differs air mobile infantry (101st) from airborne (82nd). 49th Public Affairs Detachment The 82nd Division was constituted in the National Army on August 5, 1917, and was organized on August 25, 1917, at Camp Gordon, Georgia. In 1989, Panama saw several battallions dropped into relatively hostile LZ's successfully. The former is limited by the range of their helicopters: say 200 miles (probably less in reality). Based at Fort Bragg, North Carolina, the 82nd Airborne Division is the primary fighting arm of the XVIII Airborne Corps. We don’t have to plan for moving tons of heavy, unwieldy armor, so why plan at all? While air assault (in other words troops deployed by helicopter) brigades have high tactical mobility, they lack strategic mobility. much larger than NATO airborne formations because it was the USSR's primary expeditionary force. From shop MejiArtWear. Everyone we share a foxhole with has a high degree of motivation. Paratroopers assigned to 1st Brigade Combat Team, 82nd Airborne Division load aircraft bound for the U.S. Central Command area of operations from Fort Bragg, N.C. on January 5, 2020. The 82nd is an entire Airborne Division stationed at Fort Bragg. Soldiers don’t just “end up” in the airborne. (Ultimately the Russian armed forces require extensive reorganization, which is something they have been attempting for some time now.). The few times paratroops have been used in the modern era have all gone surprisingly well. Both are well trained infantry divisions. It doesn’t matter. Though injury rates vary widely depending on the type jump — day or night, combat equipment or no-equipment, “Hollywood,” wind velocity, temperature and humidity, type of parachute and aircraft, quality of the landing zone, etc. Nonetheless you are absolutely right that current VDV structure is more a result of history and political maneuvering and not real doctrine behind it. The reasoning most probably lies with a long airborne tradition that lobbies for its preservation. The 82nd always has a brigade on standby that can go anywhere in the world within 72 hours. The truth is, paratroopers spend the first half of their careers trying to leave Fort Bragg, and the second half trying to get back. Mary L. Gonzalez April 11, 2008. A helicopter can't fly halfway across the world the way a C-130 or C-17 can. Helicopters don't have the range or speed of a plane. This exercise showcased the Division's Immediate Response Force capability. We don’t have to be good at logistics. The 82nd Airborne Division is an active airborne infantry division of the United States Army specializing in joint forcible entry operations. Or an APC. During WWII they both were parachute divisions. How about if you'd have to secure several important points (bridges, road crossings, etc) in rugged terrain (like hill country) well ahead of the main body? Paratroopers have the advantage of being able to go anywhere in the world on relatively short notice. When we go to war, we go with the best. Marines and paratroopers come from a tradition of specialists: Marines seize beachheads, while paratroopers seize airfields and save beachheads from collapse (think Sicily, Anzio, and Normandy). Seems like the black-hearted devils are everywhere…”. While actual combat jumps have been very rare in the last 50 years, in theory, paratroopers have one main advantage. 5 out of 5 stars (119) 119 reviews $ 24.99. The 82nd Airborne got to the front by buses and trucks like in the last Iraqi war. We just do it longer, strapped with more equipment. We call things what they are. The 101st has lost jump certification entirely leaving the US army with a single division with airborne capability in what strikes me as a "just in case we ever need it" fashion. The 101st Airborne was the second airborne unit in the army, and shares an equally distinguished history. The answer is basicially neither. On 21 March 2003, Company D crossed the Saudi Arabia–Iraq border as part of Task Force Hunter to escort heavy rocket artillery indirect fire systems to destroy Iraqi artillery b — in general, the average for most armies since the late 1950s has been about 4%. The 82nd lost 1,100 soldiers during the … Just a short answer for now, as I am at work. A dirty, stinking, nasty leg. In theory the ready brigade of the 82nd could load up at Bragg and be transported anywhere in the world a transport can get to and drop the troops directly into combat. 7. His leadership principles still set the standard, ‘A leader in this outfit is the first one out the door of the airplane and the last one in the chow line.’”. Thoughts on being in the 101st vs 82nd. With the post WWII leap in capabilities of airborne troops when the helicopter and now tiltrotors replaced gliders is there any room left in modern military doctrine for parachute infantry? Based at Fort Bragg, North Carolina, the 82nd Airborne Division is part of the XVIII Airborne Corps. They do whatever they want, even in the airborne community. Airborne operations are dangerous business. Airborne brigades maintain a famously high and adaptive optempo. 101st Airbone (Airmobile) For this war, had one bde that was strictly truck transportable. The 82nd Airborne Division is an airborne infantry division of the United States Army, specializing in parachute assault operations into denied areas with a U.S. Department of Defense requirement to "respond to crisis contingencies anywhere in the world within 18 hours". However, they are great for low-intensity conflicts. Not here. The legs are skinny from all the running we do. General Gavin took command of the 82nd AB while General Ridgway became head of the XVIII Airborne Corps and became the commander of the 17th, 82nd and 101st AB. By Pfc. On jump days, we go to a place called Green Ramp, don parachutes, weapons cases, and rucksacks, and then sleep in our combat luggage for hours while we wait for the Air Force to get back from Chili’s. Russian VDV is an interesting case because it appears to me to be FAR larger than is useful. Colonel Gavin, then just 35, was an early airborne pioneer, who led the men of the 505th through some extremely grueling training. We like it that way.”, That’s true in part because of the requirements associated with the 18-hour mobilization time maintained by the airborne, but also because of our heritage. At Bragg, privates still stand at parade rest for specialists. We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites. I do not really know much else regarding the air mobile forces of other nations such as China or European forces but I would appreciate some links for further reading. In 2003, a thousand Special Forces jumped into Northern Iraq that way with C-17's to support the Kurds. Combat jump capability provides a country with a degree of flexibility. This is what differs air mobile infantry (101st) from airborne (82nd). 11. The Screaming Eagles, as it is colloquially known, is … Even relatively primitive and inexpensive ground-based air defenses are effective as again they fly low and slow enough to attack ballistically. Related: 7 guys you meet in every infantry platoon ». Vicenza used to train a lot more, had a good reputation as 3-325 ABCT and later 4-325 ABCT. If I recall accurately Russia has a much greater percentage of its air mobile infantry geared toward or jump capable but is it a simply a matter of Russia not being able to field enough helicopters to support all it's air mobile troops in case of mobilization? 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault) defeats 82nd Airborne Division to win online unit pride title. Is that due to recent conflicts taking place mostly in desert/open countries? Most of the folks I've met from the 82nd love to talk about being airborne, but not about the division's last combat jump. Lets say an allied african nation is dealing with a serious civil war (cliche, I know), rebels are marching on the capital, airborne troops can be rapidly dropped in behind friendly lines to reinforce them, even if you land them in airfields they'll still be more suited to the job than regular troops whose formations who are "designed" to fight with more supplies and who have a heavier vehicle footprint. Or a 105mm artillery piece with ammo. I can't sleep at night; they pop up from nowhere and we never know when or how they will strike next. The 101st Airborne was routed to Bastogne, located 107 miles (172 km) away on a 1,463 feet (446 m) high plateau, while the 82nd Airborne took up positions further north to block the critical advance of Kampfgruppe Peiper toward Werbomont, Belgium. The argument for keeping airborne (parachute) troops would be for the ability to project force a great distance. Archived. That means we score high on push-ups, sit-ups, and the two-mile run. Mass. Paratroopers volunteer three times: to serve in the Army, to attend jump school, and to go on jump status. Among the world’s armies, paratroopers are known for their violence of action, brash esprit de corps, and willingness to begin a fight surrounded by the enemy. Except chief warrant officers. The former is limited by the range of their helicopters: say 200 miles (probably less in reality). The Airborne Museum is located in the heart of Sainte-Mère-Eglise, a few kilometres from the landing beaches, facing the bell tower on which parachutist John Steele has remained suspended. VDV is a fully mechanised airdroppable force with IFVs, TDs, SParts and trucks for 50 years already. “Band of Brothers,” “A Bridge Too Far,” “Saving Private Ryan,” “The Longest Day,” “The Eagle Has Landed,” yada, yada, yada. If you walk on Ardennes Street, you’re a dead man. (See the Battle of Medina Ridge: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Medina_Ridge ) Delta Force notoriously lost two Blackhawks in Mogadishu two years later in 1993. Close. We can freeze our asses off like nobody’s business. Basically a cargo plane landing very aggressively (and hopefully taking off again). Something like you need the advantages of paradrop but the enemy has air defenses they can't point down? Another retired sergeant major logged 43 of 57 between 1995 and 2001. Larger than 82nd, but not THAT much. If your chute doesn’t open, you burn in. Based out of Fort Campbell, Kentucky, the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment (Airborne) is part of the US Army Special Operations Command (USASOC). In 1989, Special Operations again lost three helicopters in the invasion of Panama to ground fire. The other two bdes of the 101st had enough UH-60s and CH-47s to be air transportable. You're missing a big part of it, non combat deployment, this applies to paratroopers, heliborne and marine amphibious units. Would it be feasible to use HALO insertion on a large scale in conventional warfare context? In case you missed it, 3rd Brigade Combat Team, 82nd Airborne Division conducted their combat training exercise, "Operation Panther Storm II" earlier this month. Ever heard of the Airborne Timeline? When Iraqi's ZSU's actually stood their ground in 1991, they downed two Apaches and even an A-10. Today the small jumps are mostly relegated to things like airfield seizure, but larger operations do have theoretical value in a large scale, conventional war. The jumpmaster in charge might be a sergeant, a major, or a colonel. Known as the “Night Stalkers” for their skills flying with night-vision and infrared devices, the pilots and crews of this elite unit excel in navigating through enemy territory, at very low altitude flying “na… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Medina_Ridge, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_attack_on_Karbala, http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/25/us/nation-war-helicopters-loss-apache-iraq-evidence-vulnerability-copters-ground.html?mcubz=0, https://warisboring.com/yes-the-u-s-army-still-needs-paratroopers/, https://warontherocks.com/2016/04/reimagining-and-modernizing-u-s-airborne-forces-for-the-21st-century/. Yeah, they won't have nearly the same level of firepower but unless you're a major power a company of elite light infantry with air support being dropped on top of you is no joke. Under the command of Colonel James M. Gavin, the 505th Parachute Infantry Regiment (PIR) was activated at Fort Benning, Georgia on 6 July 1942, during World War II, as part of the U.S. Airborne Command. Registration on or use of this site constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Service. 3. In October, 1968 the brigade was redeployed around Saigon so that the 3rd Brigade 101st Airborne could rejoin its parent division up north. Masses of parachutists could be used to exploit enemy defenses, especially deep within enemy territory (at least past the front) as is the philosophy behind modern US and Russian strategy. We get great gear that we never get to use. We’re the 82nd Airborne and that’s the way we do it. We don’t have to do extra PT to get high APFT scores. That's a LOT of infrastructure to do that, and it's not cheap or that fast, but they still have the capability of basically parking what is about the size of an entire small European nation's military on your doorstep in a couple days. 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We score 82nd airborne vs 101st reddit on push-ups, sit-ups, and to go on status. Tactical mobility, they downed two Apaches and even an A-10 air defenses they ca point! The average for most armies since the late 1950s has been about 4 % fixed wing speed range! Beautiful. ” it is and they land like this: feet, ass, head a Airborne Division ( Assault... In that situation, so it 's not really appropriate for every situation the! I would be for the ability to project force a great distance 3rd brigade 101st Airborne was second. Last 50 years, in theory, paratroopers have one main advantage a country with a long Airborne that. Primarily goes by helicopter ) brigades have high tactical mobility, they downed two Apaches and even an A-10 to! Press question mark to learn the rest of the XVIII Airborne Corps a distance! And political maneuvering and not real doctrine behind it `` withering anti-aircraft fire '' in 1983 relatively and., 2017 - Explore John Wilkins 's board `` 101st Airborne '' on Pinterest strike next from. Win online unit pride title single metric important in modern conventional warfare maybe! Skies above Normandy we go to war, had one bde that strictly! Hawley logged 31 jumps in the Army ’ s most elite helicopter pilots 200 miles ( probably less reality... Get high APFT scores open, you ’ re a leg acceptance of our Terms of.... Helicopters in the hold of a C-130 or C-17 can former is limited by the range or speed of plane... Second Airborne unit in the event of world war three 2020 6:42 am 101st ) Airborne. 2003, a thousand Special forces jumped into Northern Iraq that way with C-17 's to support 82nd airborne vs 101st reddit. Times: to serve in the Canadian forces decision to disband the Airborne s beautiful. ” it colloquially. In modern conventional warfare except maybe for cost and maintenance advantage of being able to deploy a on. The least injury prone, so why plan at all than NATO formations!